Movie Moan - The Divisive Spider-man
Tue, July 10, 2012 You asked for it, you got it. Movie Moan proudly presents a full 80 minute, spoiler filled, show exclusively on the subject of 'The Amazing Spider-man'. Nuff' said.
Except that we are joined by a brand new and very special guest; Mr Pietro Filliponi, editor and big cheese at The Daily Blam.
Shawn Robbins of Box Office.comalso joins Phil, Jamie and Kristina (in the short time we can get her before her Skype connection cuts out):
5:14 mins - Our initial thoughts and those of one child traumatized by the Lizard.
11:30 mins- Garfield vs. Maguire and the place of the modern nerd in society.
23 mins- Stone vs. Dunst.
28:25 mins - The Lizard, plus is Aunt May the shadowy figure in the final scene?
32:30 mins- A special episode of 'Law & Order: Criminal Intent' as we put Uncle Ben's killer on trial (since Spidey never caught him in this film).
41:20 mins - Why does love in the movies have to be earned?
49:10 mins- Would New York really love Spidey?
56:10 mins- Pietro goes head to head with deadly supervillain Captain Nitpicker (otherwise known as Phil).
65:35 mins - The bad marketing and how it didn't make much difference box office wise at all.
73 mins - The one thing we want from a sequel.
Download the audio only MP3 version right here:
Reader Comments (12)
You know, I was about to click the play button... but I'm gonna opt out on this one. I'm already a bit bummed how this film turned out and failed to deliver on the "untold story" aspect despite my blind faith to the naysayers. I can almost imagine what this ep will be about with everyone ripping it apart even though it has some good qualities to it.
Catch you next week though guys, stay safe and here's hoping for more moan of the weeks.
You might be surprised TDW.
Pietro is a champion for this film like you wouldn't believe and we really try to go into detail about things that work and things that don't. No ranting from me either, honest.
Please give us a go. I worked hard on this one :)
Haha love the video Phil you did a great job. Happy to be back anytime you'll have me
Like the film...I was REALLY surprised by this show. I would have guessed that this would have been a "crap on Spidey" fest. But...NOPE.
Pietro, defended this film like no other and put up some good counter points. One of the better debates on Movie Moan.
A really great watch/listen.
Thanks guys.
Great podcast and discussion, but I think Phil (aka Captain Nitpicker) needs to work on his nitpicks. ;) For instance, here are some that I came up with (aside from the plot holes and story problems you guys mentioned):
1. So Flash Thompson can openly manhandle a kid and beat up Peter and not get the least bit reprimanded, but Peter--who merely teased Flash and accidentally breaks the basketball backboard--gets sent down to the principal's office, gets suspended for the day, gets lectured by Uncle Ben about "getting even," and has to do community service?
2. How can Peter enter a top-secret research lab and mess around with the genetically-altered spiders without altering any kind of security or get spotted on camera? Not to mention he can pass himself off as someone else without showing the receptionist any kind of photo ID?
3. While I appreciate the film including the mechanical web-shooters, if you really think about it, they make even LESS sense in the context of this film compared to the organic ones from the Raimi films. Because while Peter builds the shooters, he does NOT invent the web fluid. It comes from the same genetically-altered spiders that gave Peter his powers. Which means the moment Oscorp ever decides to shut down production of their "experimental cable," Peter's pretty much screwed. And how the heck did he even get all those cartridges IN BULK from Oscorp? Did he steal them? Purchase them online? If that's the case, can anybody buy this stuff on the market? And where did Peter get the money to buy it? And wouldn't Oscorp notice such a large batch of their experimental fluid unaccounted for or purchased? Not to mention some guy in spandex swinging around calling himself Spider-Man using what is obviously their spider-silk. And if the spiders are still genetically altered and capable of producing super-strong silk, why wouldn't Peter develop those powers too?
4, The all-too obvious Doomsday weapon that's essentially a mortar launcher with a timer that can disperse ANY chemical agent into the atmosphere. Designed for delivering vaccines my foot.
5. Peter figures out from an internet search that his parents died from a plane crash. But in his argument with Uncle Ben, he angrily accuses his father of hypocrisy by saying "How come he isn't here to tell me about [responsibility] himself? Where is he?" Um, doesn't he already know his father is dead?
6. During the carjacker scene, how does Spidey get into a locked car before the carjacker can break into it? And how did Spidey even know it was going to be that particular car the carjacker would try to steal?
7. Nice of Peter to have "Property of Peter Parker" on his camera for the Lizard to find, wasn't it?
8. So after the Lizard retreats from the school, why is Peter walking around and following the Lizard without his mask?
9. So Captain Stacy knows that the Lizard has just attacked a high school as is now rampaging through the city causing a biological attack, so then why does he waste all that manpower and expensive Tazer bullets trying to take down Spidey at that point when he clearly isn't a threat?
10. If Gwen is smart enough to be an intern at one of the world's top bioengineering companies and can whip up an antidote to the Lizard serum, what is she still doing in high school?
11. So apparently in New York, crane operators are not only allowed to work at night but also can mobilize with greater speed and efficiency than the National Guard. Not to mention that there are a series of cranes which just so happen to positioned all down a city street leading towards the Oscorp building. And isn't that a news helicopter following Spidey? If Spidey is having so much trouble swinging from building to building, then why don't they give him a lift? Or why doesn't Spidey shoot a webline onto the chopper?
12. So just why were all those liquid nitrogen canisters located on top of the Oscorp building anyway other than for plot convenience?
@Matt
Yeah, I thought the show was gonna turn out that way too. In retrospect, I'm very glad it didn't.
@Mike
Dang, I'm getting my ass kicked on both sides of the fence. Number 1 made me laugh a lot. I didn't think about that. Believe it or not, I was going to mention number 2 on the show but I was too sore to keep going.
Hey, at least this film is making you think.........about its stupidity.
OK after all the shit we went through for months about the movie. After my "mini-feud" with Jamie. The disagreements with the potential quality and quantity of the film. As a believer of this movie I saw it at midnight with a big crowd(1 kid was dressed as Spidey, lol) and really liked it. I didn't love it like the Nolan Batman films but it was enjoyable. And yes I liked it better than the Raimi films even Spider-man 2(cue shocking music and Jamie getting Hulk rage). But so did Doug Walker! I saw the Raimi trilogy again last month and I still like 1 & 2 but the have too many problems for me to even remotely call them great films. Thank you for having Pietro Filliponi this week I agree with him with almost everything. I will give props to Jamie for admitting he was wrong about the movie's box office potential. You see the brand is still strong enough well when it's Spidey. :) Now I will break it down like you guys did.
1.) Garfield vs Maguire: Ok come on! From an acting perspective Andrew was miles ahead of Tobey. I knew it just from the trailers and watching the movie just confirmed it for me. I'm still just so confused to this day with people who think Tobey was good acting wise as Peter Parker/Spiderman. Nothing about his acting as that character seem natural, real and convincing at all. Please can someone explain it to me? Now as for Andrew he was real and natural. I related to him so much in comparison to Tobey. He had the acting chops. I bought it when he got emotionally angry and sad. Andrew Garfield IS Spider-Man in my eyes. I absolutely agree with Pietro. You have to update things to make it work.
2.)Stone vs Dunst: This one is also easy for me Emma was also natural and real as an actress. She wasn't like, "Oh save from the villain Spidey!" she stood up to The Lizard during the fight scene at the school and at Oscorp at the end. Plus her screaming didn't make my ears bleed unlike with Kirsten. But to be fair the are playing different characters but both are leading ladies.
3.)Lizard vs Green Goblin: Ok I'm actually gonna side the 2002 film. William Dafoe was so much powerful as a character and was more interesting to me. Minus the awful costume and the stupid Incy Wincy Spider bit. Ugh! I did like Rhys Ifans as The Lizard but I didn't get emotionally involved with his character that much like I wanted to. I also didn't mind that he talked when he was the Lizard.
4.) Uncle Ben & Aunt May: I like them in the 2002 film but I loved them in the reboot. Simply for the fact that they are actually involved in Peter's life. I was more emotionally moved with Uncle Ben's death in the reboot because we got to know him and Peter's relationship to him was actually developed and not rushed. As for Ben's death change well only the venue was different. Peter felt responsible because he still could've stopped the guy. Pietro explained it so no need to repeat.
5.) The love relationship: I bought Peter & Gwen's relationship more because they were simple high school kids have a high school dating relationship. I didn't really care for Peter & MJ's love that much. I blame Tobey & Kirsten's acting for that.
6.) New Yorkers: I liked the montage of the citizens opinions of Spidey in the 2002 film except for the ending. It's so cringe worthy like Pietro pointed out Green Goblin does nothing. Seriously WTF! Now in the reboot I loved how they helped him at the end. It wasn't corny, it wasn't forced and it sure hell got me cheering for Spidey!
Now my problems with the movie. The Lizard's CG was well not very good. The Lizard's plan to mutate the city kinda came outta nowhere. It felt like it was thrown in there at the last minute. The parents whereabouts still untold left me scratching my head. I know the answer(s) was cut from the film but it better be in the sequel! Those were really my only major problems. There are a couple more but there just nitpicks those are not worthy to be in the same sentence as real flaws. :)
All in all I liked the movie not as much as I wanted to but oh well. I will see it again this weekend. Hopefully it plays out better in the second viewing. Before the Bat comes to town. Thank you guys for a great show. I loved it despite my disagreements with Jamie, Kristina and Phil aka Captain Nitpick, lol. Bye and talk to you guys when The Dark Knight Rises comes out. My most anticipated film of the year! :)
The moron defending this trash sounds like he likes it probably because he's an Emo/Hipster, skateboarding douchebag which is why he identifies with this new variation of Spider-man. He clearly has his head up his ass as he tries to make out that, in Raimi's Spider-man, Ben dies and then *POOF* he's forgotten when it's pointed out that isn't the case as with Peter crying in his bedroom not to mention the moment at the end when he states to Norman Osbourne that Ben Parker is his father not to mention the part where HE'S STANDING OVER BEN PARKER'S GRAVE and recites in a voice over the "Great power" line which is the heart of what Spider-man is.
TSM is fucking garbage and although Raimi's movie was corny as fuck, it still had more heart and emotion than this new piece of steaming shit.
All of you guys raise valid points to be honest, but I'm gonna have to side with Pietro for the most part.
I'm not saying this to be a contarian, but I never connected with Rami's films... for several reasons, but mainly because of Maguire. His character was not only written to be an uber wallflower (I have to parot what Pietro said about that kind of persona not being appropriate for the 2000's) , but it wasn't helped that Maguire only seems to have two facial expressions as an actor... that pursed lipped, sappy expression (which I guess is supposed to be endearing) and that wide eyed "I'M REALLY ANGRY, NOW!!!" look, like he's acting a silent movie or something (actually, I can't say that without feeling like I'm insulting Jean Dujardin). Dunst was better than he was, but the way her character was written always felt problematic. She really was there just to be rescued and (for lack of a better word) cock-tease Peter Parker, rubbing his nose in whoever she happened to be dating at the time. Infact, I never truly FELT that Maguire's Parker truly grew up. I know you guys didn't talk so much about the second and third films, but everything Parker does seems to be for egotisical reasons. In the second film, there is that really confusing sub-plot regarding his wrist-webs that isn't really resolved (sort of) until Aunt May gives that not too subtle speech about puttting aside one's dreams... call me a cynical bastard (actually, don't... I already know I am) but I can't help but feel Peter doesn't change his tune until after May talks about "his fans lining up to see him in the rain" ; he's just an overgrown geek who wants the adulation...
Anyway, I really liked the new film... more than any of the Rami films...
Loved Andrew Garfield as Peter Parker/Spiderman! I get what you guys are saying that a guy like that would be popular, but just because someone is quote "popular" that doesn't mean to say that they aren't an outsider in some kind of internal way. This may be a left of field comparison, but Garfield's Parker reminded me ever so much of Gyllenhaal's Donnie Darko... you get a sense that he is well liked at school, but there is no question that he's different from the other kids. Also, despite his more confident, less nerdy portryal of the character, I loved how self-deprecating he was. Garfield's Parker doesn't instantly embrace or even understand his powers at first and plays the part like a well intentioned, yet baffled kid and is actually funny (the accidental fight on the train). He also does something genuinely nobel when he saves that kid from the burning car... he takes his mask off to make him feel more at ease. I was actually quite touched by that little moment... Maguire's character never would have done something like that, because you get the sense that the Spidey persona is just an ego boost for him... without it, he's a milquetoast! Also, how is he gonna make a little kid like that feel better, when emotionally, he still comes across as one.
Really liked Stone's Gwen and thought she was a great match for Garfield! The chemistry between them actually works! She seemed like someone Parker SHOULD be going out with... not some idealistic fantasy like M.J, but someone who personality wise is on the same page as he is (regardless of how cute Emma Stone is). She seemed a lot less shallow and wasn't some airhead that screamed a lot and needed saving!
I was concerned with the way Ifans was going to come across, but I thought he was perfectly fine with what he had to work with. He wasn't someone who went nuts due to some freak accident, he had a genuine, emotional goal despite his hubris. He also wasn't totally wasted as an actor like Dafoe was in the first film or almost forgotten about like Molina in the second film! (I'll refrain from talking about the third film's villians, because it makes my brain hurt too much). The C.G.I Lizzard... I'm still cut up about it to be honest, some shots he looks perfectly intimidating... other times, not so much. The shots of him talking weren't entirely necessary, but it didn't bother me too much, either ; there is an arguement for him talking and not talking, which I haven't really achieved peace with yet... there are valid criticisms for both camps.
For Ben and May, I agree with our own A2THEH on that front. They had more personality than Robertson and Harrris... those two just seemed like they were cast to be "Peter's Grandparents" and nothing else. I was actually kinda hoping they wouldn't kill off Uncle Ben! Martin Sheen is just too soild an actor, to get rid of that soon!
Anyway, I really liked the film and feel good that they have finally made a Spiderman film I can enjoy. Pietro, I hope you appear on the show more often. I don't just say this I agree with you on TASM (, but you managed to do something that wasn't easy... you put Jamie in his place in his place more than once! That couldn't have been an easy to do ;-)
P.S Phil... I finally put up the cash and went to see it at the BFI IMAX... I seriously underestimated how high that screen is.
Amazing Spider-Man for me had great acting, decent action, decent direction and almost no joy or fun. It felt like the "TDK" of Spider-Man movies. I've been rather astonished by how much people have been shitting on Raimi and his films. I wonder if 10 years from now, people will be shitting on Iron Man and Avengers for being too jokey.
So after seeing a second time I like it alot more. Hell I loved it! I can't wait for the sequel!
I now pronounce The Amazing Spider-Man the best Marvel adaption that I've seen! :)